Early Offers 2014

/ profbillanderson

A revised and updated version of a post from 2013.

We just finished (February 20) processing our first round of offers for applicants who are Ontario high school students, and they have been posted in Quest.  It may take a few more days for OUAC to be updated and emails to go out.  Some of the processes were described in an earlier post, How to Get an Early Offer (which may be a bit outdated for 2014).  But to summarize, we took the data we had at that point and made enough offers to fill up to 1/3 of our available spaces in each program (more specifically, those spaces reserved for Canadians and Permanent Residents).  These are applications where we have enough data and it’s clear that they are competitive, based on previous experience.  We were quite conservative this year, and  gave out fewer offers than in 2013, since we want to leave lots of spaces for a fair competition in the final round in May.  In part, this is because application numbers are up significantly again this year and it’s hard to distinguish fairly between applicants when there are so many with similar grades.  So we think it’s better to hold off until the most complete data is available in late April.  We’ll be processing some non-Ontario applicant offers in the coming weeks.

Some universities give out a lot more earlier offers, but that’s simply because they have a lot less competition for spaces and can just go ahead with whatever they have.

We sent out less than 1,000 offers, so now there are well over 5,000 applicants wondering why they didn’t get an early offer and comparing notes with others who perhaps did.  My advice is to not spend much time worrying about it.  From an applicant’s perspective, the decisions will possibly appear to be somewhat random and irrational.  To us, the decisions are quite reasonable because we can see all the data put together in context and all the applicants in rank order, but you’ll just have to take our word for it.  There are a variety of reasons why an early offer wouldn’t be made in this round, and I’ll summarize them here:

  1. You are not an Ontario high school student (OUAC Form 101 applicant).  If you applied on Form 105, we haven’t made any offers to that group yet but will start in the coming weeks.
  2. No AIF was submitted by the time we started assembling the decision data.  If an AIF wasn’t submitted we didn’t admit, no matter what the grades are like.  Some applicants may want to check that they actually clicked on “Submit”, and not just “Save” for their AIF.
  3. Missing or inadequate English proficiency information, either a test score (e.g. TOEFL) or proof of English language schooling outside of Ontario.  We skip these too.
  4. Inadequate Grade 12 grade data.  We looked for at least 3 Grade 12 required course marks. In a very few cases we went with just 2 if the Grade 12 marks were very high, the Grade 11 courses were also very strong and there was a strong ICS4U and/or MDM4U grade too.
  5. Some grades may not have reached us in time for this round.  In a  fraction of the applications there are missing grades when we make the early decisions because of the timing of data uploads and downloads from the school and OUAC.  This can result in what seems like “random” offer decisions.  The grades that an applicant knows they have, and what we  can actually see at a specific point in time can be different.
  6. It might appear to us that you’re not enrolled in all of the required courses.  This can happen if you are taking one of them in night, online, or private school, and that information hasn’t filtered into OUAC yet.
  7. The AIF was submitted but not yet scored when decisions were processed.  We score as many as we can before starting decisions, but it’s not feasible to wait until they are all scored.  So for some applicants, they wouldn’t be getting the full bonus from the AIF score during the early round of offers.  However, they will all be scored before the final round of offers.
  8. If you had any Grade 11 or 12 course grades less than 70%, we might have decided to wait until we get the rest of the grades in April to ensure they remain consistent.
  9. The grades and scores were just not competitive enough for the limited number of spaces we filled at this point in time.  For most programs, the average admission grades were in the 94 to 95% range.

For those who did get an early offer, congratulations, but keep working hard because your scholarships depend on the grades we get in late April.  For those who didn’t get an early offer, keep working hard too because there are still plenty of offers (up to 2,000 more) to come in May.

298 thoughts on “Early Offers 2014”

  1. thanks for your timely info. I got the early offer, which means my AIF is scored already, any possibility I can check how much score I got for my AIF?

  2. When you say “If you had any Grade 11 or 12 course grades less than 70%”, do you guys care about an O course that has a 65%?
    Also, are you able to tell us how many spots are left for civil engineering?

    Thank you

      • Then, In May, If a person has a 60 in Gym (O course), would you reject them since they don’t meet the requirement which is to stay above 70%?
        I thought it was only for Top 6 and not the O course…

      • Sorry for a lot of questions
        I just need to verify it since my guidance only said they only look at TOP 6 average.
        So in May, will you guys look at TOP 5 or TOP 6?
        I’ve talked to one of the UofT representatives, and they said they will only look at TOP 5 for the admission and TOP 6 for the scholarship/bursaries in May.
        I am so happy that you guys won’t look at other courses than TOP 6 (TOP 5?) because it is not mathematically feasible for me to go from 35% to 70% by May.

  3. how many offers will be in 2014 for engineering department? I thought around 1500, early offer already been 1000?

  4. I’m kinda disappointed that I didn’t make the early offer with 95% average and what I think was a good aif.

    how has SYDE admission shifted from last year?

  5. Dear Sir,
    I got a mark of 74 in English grade 11 (Because my teacher was completely unfair, I had a 90 in grade 10)
    I got a mark of 88 in English grade 12 that I took at summer school (not private school)
    would this cause inconsistency and not give me an early offer.
    I have an average of 93 and have applied to computer science? Do you think I’ll receive an early offer? Do you know when are CS early offers usually made?
    Thanks,

  6. What was the admission average for Civil Engineering? Is Civil Engineering competitive to get into in general. What average would i need to get in. So far I’ve completed 4 courses : Calculus 94 Advanced Functions: 91, English: 88 Earth and Space Science: 95..I’ve chemistry and Physics left to complete. What are my chances in getting to Civil Engineering? Thanks

    • Yes, Civil is quite competitive with a similar 94-95 average for the first round. I don’t really know your specific chances, but there are lots of offers to come in May. Perhaps you fell just below the 1st round competition.

  7. Hi Professor,
    For those that have not been admitted to Waterloo Engineering, what engineering school do you recommend with a good co-op program.
    Thanks

  8. Thank you for the update!
    To clarify though, does this mean Ontario high school students should not expect another round of offers before the final round in May? And if not, is it possible to share when approximately additional offers might be made?

  9. Hey prof,
    I didn’t get an early acceptance to computer science or software engineering and I was wondering if a part of the reason for that was because I went to a non-semestered school? Could it possibly be because I have completed 1/3 or 1/5 prerequisite for my programs respectively? Also are there any computer science offers still to be given out this month, as I can only see computer science acceptances that were given out in December or January, before the AIF deadline.

  10. Do you have any idea as to what the borderline averages will be in May (lower, same, or higher)? If someone with a 92% average didn’t make it in the early round, is it still very much possible to receive an offer (for software engineering specifically)?
    Thank you.

    • Yes, certainly there are still good chances left in May. The early round only looks at applicants ranked in the top end. In May we select from the remaining applicants until the programs are filled.

  11. Hi! I’ve been following your blog a lot. I was actually accepted early to SYDE this year with a 89.6 average. I am quite confused on how i got an early offer with such an abysmal average relative to early offers.

  12. Hi professor,
    If I fail a course this semester, but it is not a prerequisite, nor will it be in my top six, will it affect my second round admission decision? And if I receive a conditional offer, and the same situation applies (me failing a non required course), will this have any ill effects on my offer of admission?
    Thanks

  13. Hello professor, thank you so much for your blog, it has helped me throughout my admissions and decision process. I am pleased to say, that I received my offer today, and will see you all in the following fall! Thanks for everything professor! Though, I got accepted to ECE, I’m considering switching to Chemical Engineering at UW, how will I be able to do this (if I do, as I am still negotiating between the two diciplines)?

  14. wow 94-95% is high. you mentioned that the early offers were for ontario students when does the offers for BC students start coming out? also does electrical engineering go into the 94-95% average range? Thank you

  15. Hi sir.
    I have gotten an early offer yesterday. (I was so excited 🙂 ) however, I recently changed my religion which is mendatory in Catholic school to Open course. Would it going to affect both the final acceptance in June and scholarships?
    Thanks 🙂

  16. May I ask, what was the average for ECE early acceptance? I’m a little disappointed I didn’t get in with a 92% and with national level ECs.
    Thank you.

  17. Dear Professor,
    Thank you so much for posting the update!
    I did not get an early offer (which personally I assume that our school sent out our first semester marks too late as I do have a 96% of my Top 6 with required courses included…). Sorry for the trouble but I was wondering would you look at the second-semester mid-term marks if none of the courses would be in one’s Top 6? Also, would those second semester marks be associated with scholarship consideration?

    Thank you so much for reading through this post and have a great day!
    PS. Additional “thank you” to the engineering department for emailing updates of the application process~

    • Yes, there were a number of applications where it looked like we didn’t receive grades in time. Unfortunately we can’t wait as we’re on a strict schedule to manage workload. If all the courses were done in the first semester, the second semester won’t have any impact (unless you get a higher 6th course mark). Scholarships are based on the 5 required + 6th U/M course grades only.

  18. Hi professor,
    How many software engineering offers did you hand out? About 50? And how many software engineering offers are left? How does the competition for software compare to last year’s?
    Also, may I ask, what is the importance of having a high mark in MDM4U?

    • We aimed to fill about 35 software spots, so there will be about 70 left to fill. Competition is up significantly. A high MDM4U mark is just another indicator of strength in math, and consistent performance in all grade 12 courses in general.

  20. Hello Professor Bill Anderson!
    For the past two years I have been living and studying in Russia, despite attending a Canadian school for 8 years. When I came to Russia, I was(and still am) struggling with the Russian language(and literature). Would you mind sharing if my Russian Language and Russian Literature marks would affect my admission to the Software Engineering program?

  22. Hello Professor,
    What was the average for mechanical and chemical engineering , and how many spots are left?
    Thanks for the update !

  23. Hello prof, I got an early offer to mechanical engineering and with it being my first choice, I was wondering as to when is a good time to accept it? I understand the latest is june but I was wondering if you suggest I wait to receive the package in the mail that indicates my conditions? Is there any benefit if I do accept it soon? I would also like to thank you for your blog as it has helped me (and many others alike) tremendously. It is people like you that contributed to my preference for Waterloo.

    • Congratulations. You can accept any time, there’s no particular benefit one way or the other that I can think of. People can accept, then change their mind and accept somewhere else anytime before June. There is a small benefit to me if people accept before May, as it helps firm up our number estimates before we send out the bulk of our offers. I’m glad the blog is helpful.

      • Thankyou. It may be a silly question as I just previously said that Waterloo is my top pick, but would accepting my offer early discourage other universities from sending me their offers? I guess my question is: will other universities see that I have already made a decision through OUAC?

      • No, accepting offers has no effect on other university processes. I don’t believe we can even see that information (except for our own acceptances, of course). The OUAC FAQ mentions this somewhere too.

  24. Hi Professor,
    Do you know how many spots remain in Chemical Engineering? Also, what was the admission average for Chemical Engineering applicants accepted in the first round?

    Would it be possible for me to change my alternate choices on my AIF if I submitted before February 7th, even though the extended deadline is March 21st?

    Thank you.

  25. Hello,

    I was wondering about your 6th reason of not receiving an early round offer. Even though I am taking the required courses in a regular semestered school but they weren’t uploaded to quest in time (i.e. February 18), could that have been another factor, which prevented me from receiving an offer? Despite submitting the AIF early and scoring considerably competitive marks?

  27. Thank you very much for the information! Will the rest of the offers be coming out in May? Or will there be a some offers before then?

  28. Hi Professor,

    I was just wondering what were generally some of the engineering programs with the highest admission averages?

    Thanks.

  29. I am a Science student from India and will apply for admission to CS Fall 2015 batch. I have the following questions:

    1. Which subjects and which Standard do you consider while arriving at the 94% average? Is it Grade 11 and 12 or even 9 and 10?

    2. Since most US colleges need an answer by 1st May how would I know if UW offer will come through or not?

    • I’m not involved with CS admissions, so I can’t really answer how they do it. If you have US school acceptances, you can let Waterloo know and they will try to get you an answer before May.

  30. Hi Professor Anderson,

    I was wondering if you could give me an insight on Chemical Engineering at UW. I want to become a Process or Combustion engineer in an Oil and Gas company. I noticed that there aren’t many electives for this type of specialty. How would one become a Process or combustion engineer. Please let me know.

    • The standard Chemical Engineering curriculum contains everything you need to get started in Process Engineering. I teach a core course, CHE480 Process Analysis and Design, which is very process engineering oriented. Mechanical engineering has elective courses in combustion engineering, which chemical engineering students could take, but a lot of people specifically interested in combustion will go into mechanical engineering instead. It’s one of those fields where chemical and mechanical engineering have a lot of overlap in the technical content.

  31. sorry, I posted this question under other topic, 1500 spaces for 12 programs and 1/3 early offers, which means only 42 for each program will get early offer? my son got computer science early offer, but he is expecting SE offer, will his early CS offer impact your decision of SE?

    • Some programs are smaller, like geological engineering (about 25) and biomedical (45), and some are larger like mechanical (185), so it’s not really 42 per program. CS offers have no impact on engineering decisions, since they are separate faculties and admission processes.

  32. Hello,

    I want to transfer a question from the previous “Early Offers” post. I asked you about the AP Exam, and the average, I had a question to follow that.

    My school is a mastery learning school, which means there are no exams, but units.

    For AP Calculus AB. Just in case Waterloo decides to use this 10th grade mark, you said the admission committee will look at the AP Exam grade. What happens to the GPA? The average of AP Calculus AB. Is the GPA of this course of no use for admission? (Because of the AP Exam)?

    Just out of curiosity, I will take the AP Calculus BC course next year, which I believe is equivalent to the Canadian Calculus.

    Which one *typically* has more weight in admission?

    Where does a 5 in the AP Calculus AB exam BUT a 3.5 GPA in the course overall put you for the admissions?

    Thanks

    • This is somewhat too complicated to give a useful answer. An Admissions Officer needs to review an entire transcript before they decide exactly which scores to use when there are multiple options. Generally, we pick the scores that give the applicant the best outcome, if it seems reasonable and consistent with their overall performance.

      • Hi,

        The reason I ask is because, as I said above, my school is a mastery learning school. So grades are NOT determined by percentage, instead by mastery. Because of the AP Exam system, my teacher wants me to succeed for the AP Calc AB exam. The problem is that, to do so, she made a system where in UNIT tests (which determine the grades of units), we only had a chance for B-Level mastery. My teacher did this so that it would be exam practice. I DID manage to get B’s on all my units, but we never had chances to get any A’s! I am the Top student in the class, but I all I can do is B-Level mastery. Does this hinder my acceptance chance in Software Engineering OR Electrical Engineering? (Assuming I get a high score in the FINAL AP Exam)?

        Thanks Sir!

      • That shouldn’t be a problem. Our staff are used to seeing that type of school system and are experts on interpreting the rank, predicted grades, unit grades, etc. so that it’s a fair comparison with other applicants.

      • Hi,

        So Mastery Learning isn’t a problem. But, the real problem here is not mastery learning, its the grading system my teacher used.

        Like I said, because of the AP exam, my teacher only allowed us to try B-Level problems, which means no grades are A’s!

        Does this have to be explained to the admission officers though? The AP and mastery learning system of my teacher?

  33. Hi I’m an international student, I want to ask
    is it possible for someone with 91 average to get an early offer?

    • It’s possible, but for international applicants the offers only start in a couple of weeks and come out in small batches over the next two months (as we make progress on evaluating files).

  34. Hi,
    In a previous reply, you mentioned you filled about 35 spots in software so far and there are about 70 left to fill. Does this mean that software only has 105 spots this year? For some reason I remember hearing 150 at a previous open house I attended.
    Thanks.

  35. Hi Professor,
    I was wondering how the alternative choices work. I assume that by the time you get around to looking at them, you’d have already filled most of the spots with the offers you plan to give out in May?
    Does this mean that someone around the borderline average for software who got cut will have a lower chance of making it into an alternative such as computer engineering even if their average was higher than other comp eng applicants?

    • No, alternates are considered in parallel with everything else in the May round, so the chances are fair. It’s a complicated, iterative process, which is why it takes a while to do. Perhaps I’ll write a post about it in the coming month or two.

  36. Hi professor,
    What was the early admission average for biomedical and software?
    Also, I am 100% committed to going to Waterloo engineering. I received an early offer to software and I was wondering if there are any benefits or disadvantages to accepting the offer on OUAC right now? Would accepting right now affect scholarship decisions at all?
    Thank you for all the help. I enjoy your blog!

    • I don’t have the exact numbers at hand, but Biomed and Software were probably in the 95+% range. There is no particular pro or con to accepting now, and it doesn’t affect scholarship decisions. If you’re 100% sure, then I suppose you might as well accept and check that off your to do list.

  38. Hello,

    I read through the questions and found that there’s about 70 spots left for Civil Engineering. How many offers do you foresee being given out to fill those 70 spots? Thank you

  39. Hello Professor I was wondering if you have noticed a trend in the averages for early acceptance and the averages for may through the years. Based on the averages for early acceptance this year for software engineering what range do you predict to be a “safe” average for acceptance in may for me to aim for. It seems the admission average for software engineering rises every year and I am quite worried that my 93-94 avg that would have been “safe” in previous years is no longer an adequate average for software engineering.

    • I don’t track the early round averages, mainly because there is too much potential random “noise” in that data. Definitely the number of applications has been steadily rising, so the competition levels are too. We’ll just have to wait and see in May how it turns out.

      • Ok I understand. But If you were to make a prediction on the admission average (it doesn’t have to be accurate) for this years software engineering what would it be ? Is there a high chance of admission if I bring my mark to a 94+ or is that also borderline right now. I’m sorry if I am pestering you I am just very worried I may not get in with the marks I currently have.

  41. What was the average for ECE last year and what was the overall engineering average last year? Thank you so much for your informative post.

  42. I know that you only deal with engineering applicants, but do you know what a competitive average like for Physics program?

    I’ve an A*AA in a level Maths, Physics and Further Maths respectively. Is that good enough?

  43. Does Waterloo take into account the type of university credit course in addition to the mark?
    Marks vary a lot from high school to high school and even in a given high school there can be a difference between academic, enriched, gifted , AP.
    My son is in a specialized math-science-computers high school program where the math, science, english, computer programming courses he is taking are enriched. So far in grade 9 and 10 in the enriched courses his grades average 90.
    For grade 11 my son has the university level courses that either ..U3 – Enriched (physics, chemistry, or ..U0 – AP (math). While I’m very glad that my son is learning a lot and that his workload will also make him better at time management and self-discipline .. if only the marks count then his marks may be lower in the more demanding AP and enriched courses than in the academic university ones.
    What would be your advice for a fair chance at university admisssion: grade 12 academic, grade 12 enriched or grade 12 AP?

    • We always note if the courses are enriched or AP (etc.), so in borderline cases we will generally pick the one with those courses over the regular ones. Beyond that, I’m reluctant to suggest a particular path because the student and parents are in a better position to decide what they can handle. We do appreciate those who take a bit more risk and challenge themselves.

      • There is no doubt in my mind that he can handle enriched and AP courses especially since the choice was his. And I’m sure that he will learn more and he will find out more about himself and what he can do in a more challenging course.
        If admission in university were based on comprehensive entrance exams I wouldn’t be worried and I wouldn’t be asking this question.
        However I would hate if my son would not get in to the program he wants because his let’s say 90 average with AP and enriched courses would be too low compared to let’s say a 95 in regular academic course. There are so many parents that are switching or talk about other parents they know switching their children from IB to academic, from gifted to academic or from private school to publich school for grade 12 (and 11) in order to get higher marks one doesn’t know what to believe anymore.

      • Yes, hard to know what to do. I’ve seen cases where marks drop when switching out of IB because the student becomes bored or over-confident. It all comes down to an individual decision.

  44. I applied to civil engineering, and missed out on an early acceptance. I’m an Ontario student, I’ve
    completed 3 of the 5 prerequisites with a 95 average, and I am sure that the marks have been sent to OUAC. Does the fact that I’m taking Calculus and Physics (which I’m guessing to be 2 of the most important pre-reqs) second semester have anything to do with missing out on an early offer?

  45. I know you said that scholarships are based off of midterms, but what if we manage to bring up our grades at the final report? Are we still not able to receive higher scholarships?

  46. Hi, I applied to Software Engineering as my first choice and Systems Design as my second choice in my AIF. Considering the fact there are only around 60 seats left in Systems Design Engineering, will I get equal consideration to Systems Design Engineering if I do not get accepted to Software Engineering?

  47. Hello,

    I received an acceptance to ECE. Will my scholarships be based upon my midterm marks, or based on the marks in May? Would I have to send in an updated transcript in May?

    • Scholarships will be based on whatever marks we have in late April, so you should send in an updated transcript before then especially if you have some improved grades. If you accept the offer, you’ll have to send in final transcripts in July.

  48. Hi Professor,

    I was just wondering that when you go through admission process, do you weigh AP and academic courses the same? Or do people taking AP courses get a higher priority? Thanks in advance.

  49. Hi professor,
    I am a student from outside of Ontario.
    I have everything on my transcript except chemistry 12, would u make an early decision based on merely the other 4 required courses or would you also use my chemistry 11 grade? I am asking this because my chem 11 grade isn’t that strong and using it will bring me a slight disavantage. Don’t know if it helps if significant improvements can be seen on all my other grade 12 courses.

  50. My son from BC got offer of software engineering today. thank you professor. so he doesn’t have to submit mid-term marks, right? thank you again.

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